of course they knew what would happen, it’s precisely what they wanted to happen.
let’s take a moment to consider their mindset, they carefully orchestrated the whole thing (from the early teasers to release day) to get to this exact outcome. they’re sociopaths.
"Swatch on Monday issued a statement, saying the response to the Royal Pop watch collection had been "phenomenal worldwide", adding that there had only been issues in 20 out of the 220 Swatch stores where the watches went on sale."
We got two Swatch stores in walking distance both selling the Royal Pop. I went to see the crowd on Saturday morning, and people had been waiting in line for 2-3 days. Few thoughts and observations:
- It should have been clear to everyone in the line that supply on that day is limited. If there are already 150 plus people waiting in in front of you, you need to really be lucky. Back to blaming: all these stories of only 50-60 watches in some stores, could be improved. Have at least a decent amount of watches by model ready to sell!
- Each of both store got clear guardrails / marking on the ground and security staff (at least 6 people for a normal swatch store size), which is good and I am not sure this had been in place for the early Moonswatch releases. People in line got assigned numbers and were only allowed to pick up a watch with a number, even if you had been in line for 3 days, no number - no watch. In the end, no pushing or fighting, while in other cities in Germany people started to get violently
- Most people I saw in the line were male youngsters in their early 20s with hoodies and sweatpants. I observed the first four buyers getting the explanation of the technical features and specs from the store staff and I felt they do not understand a word (maybe also due to the fact that they waited 3-4 days in the cold). Real watch lovers (whatever this means) were rare, but the crowd seemed to be mostly people attracted by the hype and the quick buck
- I didn’t get the chance to get the hand on any model, but saw them very close on the presenter: The Royal Pop does look much more robust and crafted compared to watch the videos and images convey. I was pleasantly surprised!
- Quickly spoke to one sales assistant: Interestingly, there was apparently only some limited info material available for staff provided internally. He did most of his research online on the official swatch page (which I think contains all info well presented for this and the past Omega/ Blancpain collabs), but also went to research AP. I thought that a company would provide more context and info in advance of such a release
Will I get one? Not sure - I like the collab - first time a new watch vs previous releases - and got my favourite model. Will I put the same effort in calling and visiting Swatch stores as I did for my first MoonSwatch as a Speedy Owner myself - certainly not! I probably comes down to the fact whether or not there will be accessories to make the Royal Pop a proper desk watch. Still haven’t figured out whether the accessories contains the stand we saw in the teaser. Else, no clue what to do with this watch and how to wear it (writing with my BlancpainxSwatch on my wrist)!
i heard some of the same about the lack of communication to swatch stores, it sounds like they were learning about things at the same time as the general public.
btw, i'm with you on whether or not i'll get one. would make a cool desk clock, perhaps even better hanging on a golf bag. but it took me about 3 years to get a MoonSwatch so i'm in no rush 😅
The whole saga just shows that as an entity Swatch internally has no proper communications and coordination between corporate and retail/ back and front offices - leading to this epic global failure on their launch day.
I am skeptical we can blame AP/Swatch for this and not the crowds of hypebeasts and scalpers. Look at the videos from Japan, where the release looks totally normal and civilized.
Should Swatch have anticipated the mobs? Perhaps. But attempting to tame mobs is just not their job. The deeper problem here is a loss of decorum and civilized behavior.
Looking at the videos from around the world, I'm shocked that people can act so shamelessly - maybe we need to bring back being judgmental or something, idk. In my view the behavior of the mob is to blame here, not AP and not Swatch.
True, and people have bemoaned the decline of civilized behavior since the dawn of civilization itself, so perhaps I'm just wrong here and Swatch should have planned for this 😆
Yes, you’re wrong. Swatch wanted mayhem and got mayhem. Riots make the mainstream news.
Swatch knows North America and Mumbai are not Osaka (I’ve lived in Osaka, Japan is DIFFERENT!!!)
So easy to not have the mayhem. Lottery online, order window, online waitlist… or, if you want huge lines at the store? SWATCH SHOULD REFEREE AND MAINTAIN FAIRNESS FOR LINEUPS. Don’t put it on the the cops (public money) and give the product only the most aggressive flippers, FFS 🤦♂️
Definitely intentional; MoonSwatch was the lesson, this was the opportunity to improve the situation.
Btw, an IP lawyer made this (clipped) comment on SDC the other day, on the legal upside of this collaboration via “acquired distinctiveness”:
“… the massive global attention this is bringing to the Royal Oak design will greatly help AP prove acquired distinctiveness for the design elements that it hasn't yet been able to get registered.”
perhaps that's true, but i just don't think that's the first or even second motivation for doing the collab.
the pocket watch is basically just a bezel and dial, and they already have pretty strong bezel protection, so perhaps it helps with protecting of the tapisserie? All this to protect a dial pattern? The trademark office also said that's difficult in its ruling because waffle-like patterns are already pretty common, but maybe.
i texted a few lawyer friends about this, and there are plenty of other ways to get there...run a big ad campaign in every airport that's like 'look for the grand tapisserie," and you'll probably get the consumer survey results you need to prove secondary meaning.
I’m not articulating the legal issue correctly. It’s not the design per se. The counterfeit Royal Oak market isn’t niche, it’s enormous, and a meaningful (large) slice of those buyers aren’t aspiring to a $40K AP, they want the look for a price they can afford. AP can’t sue that market into nonexistence, especially post-2021 Japan and post-2020 TTAB. But they can offer a legitimate, branded, kinda-cool alternative at $400 that scratches the same itch with the actual logo on it. Some percentage of would-be fake buyers convert. Some flip. The rest of the fake market loses a little oxygen because the “real cheap one” now exists and the fakes look more pathetic next to it.
you may be right, but i think you're making my point that this isn't strictly a legal issue, but a practical, commercial issue.
In the 2014 case there are some interesting details about the lengths AP goes to protect its IP, e.g.:
"APSA enforces its intellectual property rights by participation in the Swiss Watch Federation (the "Federation"). Among other enforcement efforts, the Federation coordinates collective legal actions against counterfeiters, cooperates with local customs agents to stop counterfeit imports, and monitors websites for infringing and
counterfeit items. Burgener Decl. ,16. The Federation's legal actions have resulted in the removal of more than 100 counterfeiting websites in the U.S., and future litigation targeting 200 web sites is planned."
it also gives some details about working with US Customs and Border Patrol specifically
Also, it’s worth noting the charitable aspect is not inherently “philanthropic.” AP is effectively taking the revenue and placing it into their own foundation, tax exempt, to train and develop their own labor pool. Yet, the PR language in the announcement paints a different, more vague posture.
i agree it's vaguely worded, and it's possible that what you say is what's happening, though that certainly makes some assumptions. i hope we get follow up on the exact "dedicated initiative" sometime.
a few minutes with gemini tells me that swiss non-profit law is rather bureaucratic and has strict requirements that prevent self-dealing, non-profit foundations that benefit only their company benefactors, etc. Tax exempt organizations must pursue a public benefit, and the group of people who benefit must be fundamentally unrestricted, e.g., it cannot be employees of a specific company.
(I am sure we can think of cute ways to get around this requirements but)
from AP's website:
"As part of this collaboration, Audemars Piguet will use 100% of its proceeds to fund a dedicated initiative supporting the preservation and transmission of watchmaking savoir-faire, with a focus on rare skills and the next generation of horological talent."
of course they knew what would happen, it’s precisely what they wanted to happen.
let’s take a moment to consider their mindset, they carefully orchestrated the whole thing (from the early teasers to release day) to get to this exact outcome. they’re sociopaths.
just saw this from the BBC:
"Swatch on Monday issued a statement, saying the response to the Royal Pop watch collection had been "phenomenal worldwide", adding that there had only been issues in 20 out of the 220 Swatch stores where the watches went on sale."
"Phenomenal"!
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2e2meeg2yro
it’s a phenomenon alright, like the bubonic plague 😂
I was trying to boycott media coverage of this shitshow but you pulled me in. All I can say is, you’re right, we got what we deserved
[GODFATHER 'THEY PULL ME BACK' IN GIF]!
We got two Swatch stores in walking distance both selling the Royal Pop. I went to see the crowd on Saturday morning, and people had been waiting in line for 2-3 days. Few thoughts and observations:
- It should have been clear to everyone in the line that supply on that day is limited. If there are already 150 plus people waiting in in front of you, you need to really be lucky. Back to blaming: all these stories of only 50-60 watches in some stores, could be improved. Have at least a decent amount of watches by model ready to sell!
- Each of both store got clear guardrails / marking on the ground and security staff (at least 6 people for a normal swatch store size), which is good and I am not sure this had been in place for the early Moonswatch releases. People in line got assigned numbers and were only allowed to pick up a watch with a number, even if you had been in line for 3 days, no number - no watch. In the end, no pushing or fighting, while in other cities in Germany people started to get violently
- Most people I saw in the line were male youngsters in their early 20s with hoodies and sweatpants. I observed the first four buyers getting the explanation of the technical features and specs from the store staff and I felt they do not understand a word (maybe also due to the fact that they waited 3-4 days in the cold). Real watch lovers (whatever this means) were rare, but the crowd seemed to be mostly people attracted by the hype and the quick buck
- I didn’t get the chance to get the hand on any model, but saw them very close on the presenter: The Royal Pop does look much more robust and crafted compared to watch the videos and images convey. I was pleasantly surprised!
- Quickly spoke to one sales assistant: Interestingly, there was apparently only some limited info material available for staff provided internally. He did most of his research online on the official swatch page (which I think contains all info well presented for this and the past Omega/ Blancpain collabs), but also went to research AP. I thought that a company would provide more context and info in advance of such a release
Will I get one? Not sure - I like the collab - first time a new watch vs previous releases - and got my favourite model. Will I put the same effort in calling and visiting Swatch stores as I did for my first MoonSwatch as a Speedy Owner myself - certainly not! I probably comes down to the fact whether or not there will be accessories to make the Royal Pop a proper desk watch. Still haven’t figured out whether the accessories contains the stand we saw in the teaser. Else, no clue what to do with this watch and how to wear it (writing with my BlancpainxSwatch on my wrist)!
great stuff, thanks for the comment.
i heard some of the same about the lack of communication to swatch stores, it sounds like they were learning about things at the same time as the general public.
btw, i'm with you on whether or not i'll get one. would make a cool desk clock, perhaps even better hanging on a golf bag. but it took me about 3 years to get a MoonSwatch so i'm in no rush 😅
The whole saga just shows that as an entity Swatch internally has no proper communications and coordination between corporate and retail/ back and front offices - leading to this epic global failure on their launch day.
I am skeptical we can blame AP/Swatch for this and not the crowds of hypebeasts and scalpers. Look at the videos from Japan, where the release looks totally normal and civilized.
Should Swatch have anticipated the mobs? Perhaps. But attempting to tame mobs is just not their job. The deeper problem here is a loss of decorum and civilized behavior.
Looking at the videos from around the world, I'm shocked that people can act so shamelessly - maybe we need to bring back being judgmental or something, idk. In my view the behavior of the mob is to blame here, not AP and not Swatch.
there's certainly plenty of blame to go around, i too bemoan the decline of civilized behavior!
True, and people have bemoaned the decline of civilized behavior since the dawn of civilization itself, so perhaps I'm just wrong here and Swatch should have planned for this 😆
Yes, you’re wrong. Swatch wanted mayhem and got mayhem. Riots make the mainstream news.
Swatch knows North America and Mumbai are not Osaka (I’ve lived in Osaka, Japan is DIFFERENT!!!)
So easy to not have the mayhem. Lottery online, order window, online waitlist… or, if you want huge lines at the store? SWATCH SHOULD REFEREE AND MAINTAIN FAIRNESS FOR LINEUPS. Don’t put it on the the cops (public money) and give the product only the most aggressive flippers, FFS 🤦♂️
Definitely intentional; MoonSwatch was the lesson, this was the opportunity to improve the situation.
Btw, an IP lawyer made this (clipped) comment on SDC the other day, on the legal upside of this collaboration via “acquired distinctiveness”:
“… the massive global attention this is bringing to the Royal Oak design will greatly help AP prove acquired distinctiveness for the design elements that it hasn't yet been able to get registered.”
perhaps that's true, but i just don't think that's the first or even second motivation for doing the collab.
the pocket watch is basically just a bezel and dial, and they already have pretty strong bezel protection, so perhaps it helps with protecting of the tapisserie? All this to protect a dial pattern? The trademark office also said that's difficult in its ruling because waffle-like patterns are already pretty common, but maybe.
i texted a few lawyer friends about this, and there are plenty of other ways to get there...run a big ad campaign in every airport that's like 'look for the grand tapisserie," and you'll probably get the consumer survey results you need to prove secondary meaning.
So the store was closed because of the mob and not because they didn't have any watches? This is not clear.
closed for mobs; oakbrook was clearly communicated by swatch as one of the locations to have watches.
I’m not articulating the legal issue correctly. It’s not the design per se. The counterfeit Royal Oak market isn’t niche, it’s enormous, and a meaningful (large) slice of those buyers aren’t aspiring to a $40K AP, they want the look for a price they can afford. AP can’t sue that market into nonexistence, especially post-2021 Japan and post-2020 TTAB. But they can offer a legitimate, branded, kinda-cool alternative at $400 that scratches the same itch with the actual logo on it. Some percentage of would-be fake buyers convert. Some flip. The rest of the fake market loses a little oxygen because the “real cheap one” now exists and the fakes look more pathetic next to it.
you may be right, but i think you're making my point that this isn't strictly a legal issue, but a practical, commercial issue.
In the 2014 case there are some interesting details about the lengths AP goes to protect its IP, e.g.:
"APSA enforces its intellectual property rights by participation in the Swiss Watch Federation (the "Federation"). Among other enforcement efforts, the Federation coordinates collective legal actions against counterfeiters, cooperates with local customs agents to stop counterfeit imports, and monitors websites for infringing and
counterfeit items. Burgener Decl. ,16. The Federation's legal actions have resulted in the removal of more than 100 counterfeiting websites in the U.S., and future litigation targeting 200 web sites is planned."
it also gives some details about working with US Customs and Border Patrol specifically
Also, it’s worth noting the charitable aspect is not inherently “philanthropic.” AP is effectively taking the revenue and placing it into their own foundation, tax exempt, to train and develop their own labor pool. Yet, the PR language in the announcement paints a different, more vague posture.
i agree it's vaguely worded, and it's possible that what you say is what's happening, though that certainly makes some assumptions. i hope we get follow up on the exact "dedicated initiative" sometime.
a few minutes with gemini tells me that swiss non-profit law is rather bureaucratic and has strict requirements that prevent self-dealing, non-profit foundations that benefit only their company benefactors, etc. Tax exempt organizations must pursue a public benefit, and the group of people who benefit must be fundamentally unrestricted, e.g., it cannot be employees of a specific company.
(I am sure we can think of cute ways to get around this requirements but)
from AP's website:
"As part of this collaboration, Audemars Piguet will use 100% of its proceeds to fund a dedicated initiative supporting the preservation and transmission of watchmaking savoir-faire, with a focus on rare skills and the next generation of horological talent."